Best Damage Reduction System?

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:32 am

Meikle641 wrote: Personally, I think Sigma's idea last idea has some merit.

Thanks. I figured it would make everyone happy, or disappoint the least.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:19 pm

Shazbot79 wrote: Other than having to apply damage to 2 separate numbers, the other problem with this system is that it highly encourages light armor over heavy armor by making it easily a better choice. It's always better NOT to get hit, than to get hit and soak a bunch of damage, since getting hit at all means you're still subject to status conditions even if you don't take damage. Also, how many weapons in that game have armor piercing?

Like every single thing in that game, it's a bit complicated. Mostly, it works because you get hit often either way, and the DR is actually relevant. It's more complicated because there's three separate damage tracks, and two types of hp in the track where this matters.

It ends up okay, and is a great proof of concept here. I wouldn't recommend it as a solution directly.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:20 pm

Thinking about it, here's my proposal:

• Gain a number of extra hit points equal the armour's AC multiplied by the character's level

• These extra HP should be considered entirely the character's vitality, switching armour doesn't replenish AC.

• Healing spells heal twice the normal amount of hit points to anyone wearing armour.

• If you remove your armour your character only keeps half the damage inflicted, if they put armour back on they double the damage they've taken up to the extra HP the armour provides

Level appropriate armour should roughly double a character's HP, assuming natural armour is counted as something else. The extra calculations only really come up when you level or when you switch armour, which should be fairly rare in most games. I'm not sure how this is going to interact with 3.5 as a whole though, this makes evoker's even worse and most monster will want to go full power attack on their action.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:48 pm

I have yet to see a D&D game--or d20 game for that matter--in which having damage reduction improved play experience.

Now damage reduction did work for Shadowrun, but only because the hit points and damage in that game scaled against each other reasonably well. If you're talking about having damage reduction in dungeons and dragons and you still want to keep their bullshit non-fixed hit point system, you're seriously wasting your time. If you're really going to go through all of that effort, just throw all of that shit out of the window and impose an attack penalty if they don't have the proper DR-piercing tool.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:15 pm

Armor shouldn't grant the character more HP. It should have its own pool.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:40 pm

sigma999 wrote: Armor shouldn't grant the character more HP. It should have its own pool.

Why?

200 + 40 is the same as 240, but more confusing. People have a tendency to screw up doing repeated arithmetic operations.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:13 am

Your armor doesn't heal itself when you sleep.

Add the confusion of what happens if you switch armors after battle, I'd rather just avoid the whole thing. Give armor its own HP.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:55 am

sigma999 wrote:Your armor doesn't heal itself when you sleep.

Add the confusion of what happens if you switch armors after battle, I'd rather just avoid the whole thing. Give armor its own HP.

My thinking is that armour extends the amount of punishment you can withstand, instead of dying after 2 sword strikes you die in 3. The armour taking damage is completely incidental, a character can die with only slight damage to a good suit of armour.

So we have armour that will break after the character inside has died, we don't need to track it's HP because it should never be a factor. Putting on better armour should extend your life bar, the closest analogy in 3.5 is going from a +4 con item to a +6 con item but this analogy falls short because removing your chain shirt shouldn't kill you.

Shazbot79 · Post by **Shazbot79** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:19 am

sigma999 wrote:Your armor doesn't heal itself when you sleep.

Add the confusion of what happens if you switch armors after battle, I'd rather just avoid the whole thing. Give armor its own HP.

I have to agree with Lago and Juton...this wouldn't do anything but add needless minutiae to the game.

If you want armor to be ablative in the system that I'm ruminating on, then make HP progression static and add a cap on healing, sort of like the healing rules from Gamma World 2010, where you can only heal up to a ertain percentage of your HP at a time.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:13 pm

sigma999 wrote:Armor shouldn't grant the character more HP. It should have its own pool.

This method is really popular with a lot of video games (of course, it's easier to track when a computer does it, too). Doom is a really good example: You pick up the green armor, you get 100 extra HP and half your damage goes to that pool. You pick up the blue armor, you get 200 extra HP, and two thirds your damage goes there.

It's a workable model, but it's a pain to deal with at the table, and people might complain about the approach feeling too much like a video game.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:10 pm

RobbyPants wrote:Doom is a really good example: You pick up the green armor, you get 100 extra HP and half your damage goes to that pool. You pick up the blue armor, you get 200 extra HP, and two thirds your damage goes there.

It's a workable model, but it's a pain to deal with at the table, and people might complain about the approach feeling too much like a video game.

That's something many RPGs could learn from.